i’ve been using graphene os for about a decade now and my second pixel (6a) is approaching it’s end date. i am not a techy person. i am, however someone concerned with digital privacy. when enough people who i find trustworthy endorse technology like graphene, i take a leap of faith because the alternative seems so much worse.
to get to my point, i’m wondering how the fairphone compares to graphene. my understanding is that most fairphone users run lineage os. does the security compare? does the repairability of fairphone compromise its security? i’d really appreciate an expert opinion or two.
Running the fairphone 6 on CalyxOS.
Good seamless install and updates, supported a company looking to be just a bit more sustainable, didn’t have to support google, got similar protections against corporations that geaphene does, just not the physical protections against state actors which isn’t really in my threat model.
Repair ability does not compromise the security for all but the tiniest subset of specific targets. Full stop.
Sorry, but anyone making this argument is insane. You would have to be a top level state agent or corporate target for this to matter, in which case you would have dedicated security teams anyway.
Anyone stealing your phone not specifically targeting you or your information will wipe your phone to resell it and repairability will not matter.
Anyone after your data generally will use software attacks, phishing, etc… Repairability has no effect.
Anyone stealing your phone specifically to target your data for physical extraction, absolutely has a simple heat gun and ifixit 20€ repair kit if they have the capability to physically extract keys to break your encryption. If they do a bit of damage to the phone case or screen in the process, they don’t give a shit, they are in.
The only argument that could be made is specifically timed attack with a dedicated person or team where they steal your phone, disassemble it, hack it, plant malware, reassemble it (and somehow not have the tools to reassemble it in the same condition), and deliver it back to the same location, all without you noticing that it was ever missing. That is a subset of the 0.1% of people that would be targets for the above attack. This is the world leaders, musk/bezos/lizards, heads of dissent organizations, etc…
Also, why would they do this and not just pay an Israeli hacking company to place a targeted malware ad to instantly install spyware? Much cheaper, more effective, and repeatable for months or years until it breaks in.
thanks for addressing my questions.
Fairphone’s mission is about fair resource extraction, longevity and repair-ability. Security is not part of that. GrapheneOS refused to make their OS work on Fairphone, as some hardware security features apparently don’t exist on Fairphone. Most Fairphones come with stock Android. That said, there is at least one other OS that is purpose-built for Fairphone. I have not looked into how secure the Fairphone can be made.
GrapheneOS refused to make their OS work on Fairphone
This is a two-way street.
It is, but the GrapheneOS team was kind of a dick about it, publicly.
A reached out hand for possible future collaboration would be nicer than burned bridges.Truth. They don’t seem intent on collaborating with anyone. I’ll be unsurprised if their Motorola partnership falls apart as well.
E/os is the os for fai$phone that got a few security and privacy features. Works well, I am using it because fair and repairable is more important to me than the best security/privacy. Got shelter running, in my work profile I got all the asshole apps like whatsapp and google services (thats frozen most of the time). Its not perfect but good enough for me
Just out of curiosity, can you see which Android security update /e/os is on? It should be in settings somewhere around android version or software info or something like that, it’s a date like “October 5, 2026” or similar.
September 5, 2026 according to mine. Sometimes they’re quite quick to update, other times it seems to take a few weeks.
Nice, it’s the most recent available at the time of release as far as I can see. Android security updates are currently a bit of a mess everywhere, including on official android on pixels, because Google has been overwhelmed and there’s been layoffs etc.
i love the mission. if i have to carry a phone to exist i’d rather buy one more and fix it forever. and as i mentioned, i don’t really want to patronize google just to have a degoogled experience. thanks for the info, strongly leaning that way.
I’m using Fairphones since v3, all of them on /e/OS. I don’t know for security per se but degooglisation is up to the max and I’m very happy about it. And if you really need a google service, microG is installed, configured and sanboxed so the UX is very smooth
I started my journey with the FP6 with e/os and am loving it!
Same. Have been using mine for almost a year now, and you may count me as a happy user.
I’ve had a Fairphone 4 running CalyxOS for years. I’m very happy with it.
I really like CalyxOS’ firewall app.I would run GrapheneOS on the Fairphone. But the project stupidly decided to stick to Pixel phones for “purity” reasons, instead of recognizing that not everybody has threat models that require security cranked up to the max - not to mention, not everybody is cool with giving Google money or owning Google hardware. And now Google is pulling the rug from under them. Too bad…
It’s not for “purity reasons”. It’s because only Pixels (and their upcoming Motorola phone) have crucial security features like hardware memory tagging and the ability to physically disable the USB-C’s data transfer ports to protect against Cerberos. Cerberos is one of the main threats for end users’ security in the real world. Security “cranked up to the max” is not just for fun or for the love of the game. It’s the whole point of Graphene.
Additionally, you fail to mention that Graphene expected Google to eventually stop supporting the security features needed and partnered with Motorola to get around that ahead of time. Google didn’t rugpull Graphene, they rugpulled all Google Pixel 11+ users. Graphene is going to continue to be supported on Pixels other than Pixel 11, and it will continue with new OEM devices that have the required security features.
I say all of that as someone who used to daily drive Calyx. I moved to Graphene years ago, and prefer the featureset of Graphene. For example, Sandboxed Google Play is fantastic.
My next phone will likely be the Motorola, unless huge improvements are made with Postmarket (or whatever they rebranded to) from both usability and security standpoints.
i really appreciate this context.
“Security cranked up to the max” is the point of GrapheneOS. So far Pixel phones have been the only phones with the required hardware for security, and security updates. Most other phones are way behind on security updates. Now that Motorola will have the right hardware they will support some Motorola models next year. If Fairphone wanted to make a secure phone they could lay the foundation in hardware and updates. Last I read from them they felt their security was good enough.
Security cranked up to the max” is the point of GrapheneOS
Exactly.
And that’s why I don’t daily-drive GrapheneOS, just like I don’t daily-drive a Ferrari, because I have no need for it and there are more important considerations for a nobody like me.
Yes, and I think that’s very valid of course. Many parts of Graphene are only really useful for people with a specific threat model.
yeah, like i said i’m a layperson when it comes to tech. i kinda thought that degoogling was some sort of faustian deal where i had to buy the hardware to get away from the software. sounds like that’s not the case. i’d love to have a phone i could repair and not give google any more cash.
edit: additional question… is calyx pretty easy to set up on it?
Yeah it’s super-easy. They have easy instructions to follow for all supported devices.
thanks! this is sounding like a workable solution.
I don’t wish to add complication but Calyx paused all updates for 11 months but they are back. This could happen again which would force you to either have an insecure OS or install something else. More details on Wikipedia.
I’d say they have spent this time being extra careful about making sure it won’t happen again.
The reparability and long life argument is over blown in my eyes. My family has a few iPhones that got updates for 8 years and had no issues the whole time. A one time replacement of the battery in a repair shop is a good investment.
Nevertheless, the sovereignty that comes with /e/IS is unmatched by other vendors. And the promise about fair production lines is also reassuring.
Here is a comparison table of the android distros.
thanks for this. i have some terminology to look up, but this looks very helpful!
The main reason I didn’t pick grapheneOS is because unwanted to move away from Google, not pay them more money. (None of non-Pixel phones that can run /e/OS work for my specific use case.)
/e/OS on a Fairphone 6 has been perfectly fine for me once I replaced the default launcher with Lawnchair.
My favourite feature of the Fairphone 6 is the hardware switch. I have it configured to control the torch. I cannot understate how nice it is to turn on a torch using muscle memory and not having to turn on the touch screen first. It’s so quick, easy, and convenient.
The app lounge is effectively the Google Play Store just with privacy, although I always search F-Droid first. My bank’s app requires Google Play Services to run (not just micro-G), so I’m stuck with using a web browser (or getting off my high horse and installing Play Services).
Push notifications are a little less reliable without Google Play Services. It’s frustrating, but a price I’m willing to pay to degoogle.
Everything else just feels like regular Android, and doesn’t get in the way.
Never thought of using that switch for the flashlight. I had mine set up for camera and mic but I think I might change it.
sorry what is the torch you’re referring to?
Flashlight in British English is torch.
Flashlight
sorry, yeah, that makes sense. that does sound like a nice feature.
Really happy with my 2nd hand pixel 9a and graphene
Do you use stock aosp camera or a 3rd party camera?
You can just use the Google Camera App on gOS (add playstore, download app, remove playstore, kill GCams network, it doesn’t need google stuff to run). It really is optimized for the hardware.
Is the google camera the same as the one called “Pixel Camera” from Google? The biggest difference I see is noise reduction and dim light mode.
Gonna say yes? Did it a while back, like as year, via Aurora, comes up as com.google.android.GoogleCamera for me, and Camera in the UI.
Should be mentioned:
Play is sandboxed on gOS. I block Network access for Google’s Camera app as well:
I mostly use F-Droid via Neo Store but I do have Play Store still for a couple apps like for banks or this camera app.
Then for my sanity I keep this shit disabled until I actually need to use cam, mic, loc.
OpenCamera is supposedly better.
What made you switch to Graphene a decade ago? I did not know it was a thing then. I have been curious but cannot get past the insane devs.
the insane devs
I was really hopeful when Daniel Micay announced that he would step down. Unfortunately, that was BS: he still haunts GrapheneOS like a bad fart in an elevator.
not sure it was a solid decade, but it’s been a while. my first pixel was a 4a. anyway, just hearing about it from tech privacy influencers i was following. i’ve not followed any of the drama, but if it’s bad all the more reason to switch.
It is a sad but simple question: what’s more important to you? Free software or free hardware?
“free” is not a binary proposition. Certainly Fairphone is more “free” than any other “phone” on the market that I’m aware of.
Certainly Fairphone is more “free” than any other “phone” on the market that I’m aware of.
I don’t know where you get that idea. Fairphone components are just as proprietary as any other cellphone’s. What sets Fairphone aparts is repairability. That’s it, nothing else.
I don’t know where you get the idea that repairability isn’t freedom?
I’m specifically talking about free software / free hardware - i.e. open design and open licensing. Not how free you feel when you can repair your cellphone yourself.
LOL this has nothing to do with “feeling free”. Being able to repair your devices is hardware freedom. I don’t know why you have this pigeonholed interpretation that only pertains to design and licensing.
Let me put it another way: you are free to buy spare parts from Fairphone and that lets you fix your phone. But you can’t build or sell those spare parts yourself.
Compare this to MNT: they publish the PCBs of all their electronic components, and the STEP files for all the mechanical parts. If I wanted to, I could manufacture the exact same MNT laptops myself tomorrow and it would be completely legal.
This is what “free hardware” is understood to be. I’m not pigeonholeing anything: you’re the one who misunderstands what free hardware is.
