Oh hey, the free games mod! Did not expect to find you here.

I pretty much agree with your perspective.

I am really confused here, because I did read everything you said.

The way I interpreted your reply to the user Bye was that you felt more casual play always means putting an undesired extra burden on others, and thus the only valid way to play is the opposite style. Especially because the tone I read from your reply was kind of aggressive. It seems I misinterpreted you, and I am glad you do not have a problem with that kind of play.

The more you invest into a campaign, the less work on the DM. Conversely, the less you invest into a campaign, the more work on the DM. And if the DM is fine with that, no problem!

I actually wasn’t aware of this, I figured the less you invest, the more a DM might pull back and also prep less in detail, do less intensive character backstory stuff, etc. Because the players are not going to go all-in on everything, the DM doesn’t have to prepare accordingly. I take it my assumption is wrong, and I’m curious why less investment on the player side, if already anticipated by the DM, results in a greater burden on them.

Don’t assume

I would think by me talking about the importance of a GM’s happiness and the part about how you could argue everyone always puts in less than the GM, I am already fully aware of the work a GM does. I am also writing this paragraph assuming you’re telling me, specifically, not to assume, and I do hope I’m wrong and you just mean it as a general point.

If he is in a group of like minded people, then all the power to them.

And that is the important part! If everyone’s having fun. If someone feels it’s at their expense clearly it needs to change.

I think I’m interpreting the original Reddit thread poster as saying they like 5E instead of other games because they already know the rules. So they wouldn’t be slowing down the table with not knowing the rules (stuff like what to roll) like you describe. If they tried a new game they’d have to put effort into learning new rules—which for some involves focusing on others’ turns play out, because learning by example instead of just reading the rules is pretty helpful. In other words, I am thinking they are saying “with 5e I know it well enough to check out and not be disruptive, with other systems I have to actually pay attention and learn before I can hit ‘non-disruptive without 100% focus’ status”.

I think there’s a difference between the level of checked out you describe and what I’m taking away from this post. I do hope that poster knows their character sheet and isn’t causing disruptions like the kind you described in your reply because I don’t think most people find that fun, regardless of how casual the level of play at the table is. Past tense in your reply suggests these people who caused disruptions no longer play with you, so that’s good.

YOU

I never said I’m like this. I think you are just assuming I am because I am defending a type of player you don’t like instead of agreeing with you, therefore I must be that type of player if I am willing to speak up in contradiction and potentially risk disapproval.

with a GM who enjoys that kind of vibe

Explicitly noted that in my first reply to you because I’m aware the GM is a player too. There would indeed be slack if the GM didn’t like it, but like I said earlier, if they like this vibe then it’s not really a problem… I simply want to argue that this attitude is not going to always be a problem because I imagine there are tables where all people, including the GM, enjoy it. And it seems as if you think this attitude is always a problem. It is only a problem if someone at the table has a problem with it. Some people enjoy games with vibes that others would absolutely hate. Beer and pretzels TTRPG is just as valid as serious roleplay TTRPG, and with both types you have to make sure everyone there is happy to play it that way.

(There technically would be slack because a lot of people will argue that even the most invested, full “I am optimizing and going full roleplay” player is putting in less work than the GM. I also doubt that’s what you’re referring to.)

The final aesthetic is called submission, though I prefer the term that the Extra Credits’ team use: abnegation. It just sounds cooler and more complicated. Submission is the pleasure you get from turning off your brain and losing yourself in a task you don’t have to think too hard about. Grinding levels in World of Warcraft. Mining minerals in Minecraft. Farming item drops in Diablo III.

Now, submission is an odd one to discuss in tabletop RPGs because it is one that tabletop RPGs doesn’t handle so well. The thing is, even the simplest tasks in an RPG require a high cognitive load. You have to think things through. But still, the concept of “beer and pretzels” play exists for a reason. Go down into a dungeon, kick down doors, kill orcs, take their loot, go back to town. Lather, rinse, repeat. That is submission or abnegation.

And there are people who want exactly that. They look like challenge seekers sometimes, but they don’t want to work too hard or think too hard. They just want to goof around and enjoy a simple game with clear, straightforward goals.

— theangrygm.com

If they are at a full table of people who do not want to play that way, maybe. But if this person is at a table of people with similar attitudes, with a GM who enjoys that kind of vibe, there is no slack to be picked up, no group feeling of “why isn’t this person contributing” and resentment.

Hey, thank you for explaining! I totally missed the safeword-like utility. And as someone whose primary discomfort that might arise in a TTRPG would be solved instantly by closing my eyes (can’t do gory pictures, detailed descriptions are fine though) I didn’t even think of the speed-to-a-solution aspect. Appreciate you taking the time to help.

As someone who is on board with people using communication tools:

Do you think people who would not say “I don’t like where this is going” would be willing to tap the traffic lights? It’s basically still you saying “I don’t like where this is going”, still in full view of everyone. I’m honestly not sure how the communication tools help with speaking up, besides providing a few predefined options for you (“yellow light means this, red means this”) instead of you having to find the words to explain how uncomfortable you are and what you want the solution to be. I’m not trying to tear them down, I’m just honestly curious.

Might as well out myself and say I’ve never personally needed to use these. But I don’t have to fully comprehend them to support other people doing what makes things healthier and easier for themselves, hence my not understanding while still supporting people using it.

I do not agree with a lot of the person’s ideas here, but it was a fun read. And I will give them that

• Big
• Snake-like
• Flight
• Breathes fire

is primarily how I’ll visually recognize a dragon. You can differ from this template, but I’ll probably always recognize it as a variant drawing from this.

And I do also personally dislike dragons shapeshifting, especially into humans, and sorting dragon personality by color, though I could not say why. It’s always interesting to see someone I disagree with have a few opinions that resonate with me.

Overall, I think this person is very much a fantasy trope traditionalist: stick with the established dragon stereotype and don’t move too far from its spirit; while a lot of people nowadays (including myself) like playing with it much more.

Username checks out.

Probably not when it comes to mental health in general. But when it comes to “complete social isolation will make you go crazy” it probably counts—someone stuck in solitary confinement might relish in the opportunity to get in a pointless internet argument because at least it’s interacting with another human.

gets dull

Now I am starting to wonder about the idea of “so boring it puts me to sleep,” if that’s actually true, and thus if you could use an actual play video/podcast to fall asleep.

I’m young and although I understand intellectually what people get out of it, I share your sentiment. I can find people telling stories of their fun campaign online, in text, which is faster for me to consume than listening to people talk. These stories do usually just tell the story and scrub out the “because X happened, we take out Y game mechanic and this is how it works”, so I suppose it makes sense to watch a playthrough to get mechanic exposure.

But I just really… don’t have the patience for audio and video when I can usually get what I want by reading a lot faster. I also do not need to make special accommodations to make others happy to read. No dragging headphones with me to avoid bothering the general public, and I keep more awareness of my surroundings when I can hear what is going on.

I share the philosophy of “why watch others do Fun Thing You Enjoy when you could just do Fun Thing You Enjoy yourself?”

I figure I’ll just leave all these videos up for everyone to enjoy. As long as I do not view myself as some superior human being for the very, very elite trait of simply not sharing this interest, it’s perfectly okay for me to not enjoy watching others play TTRPG. People are allowed to find things boring.

I notice you often post cool articles to read and I wonder where you are finding all these. Thanks!

Post is tagged as if it’s in the French language, you might want to switch it to English

Worked fine on Mbin, my weird Kbin branch that I am looking to leave for a small normal Kbin instance. Thanks for pointing this out, fixed for Lemmy users.

Idk, we all have our little things and pet peeves we might not be able to easily get over or personally find fun, even if we know we can suspend disbelief for far more absurd things. And “I don’t like gift economies in my RPGs” seems like a pretty benign “I will not stand for it” button as opposed to people who flip out over women being allowed to have high strength scores. I feel kinda bad "Yikes"ing the person you replied to.

Another AngryGM fan! I love reading his articles.

Shop Fodder. Warning for TVTropes link.

You would be absolutely right. (CKII screenshot sourced from this Reddit post, and link to the screenshot reuploaded on kbin.run for the Lemmy users who did not get the image as part of my reply.)

Transcription:

Bearly Legal

At the latest banquet, after polishing off four pots of stew, three whole trout, and an entire shank of lamb, Styliane was, as is her wont, trundling off to her chambers to retire - when her vestments caught on the raw edge of a table! Before a courtier could come to her assistance, the cloth was torn open, ripping straight up to the collar and leaving poor Styliane utterly exposed before the entire hall!

If that wasn’t scandal enough, the party-goers were struck mute with an astonishing realization: Styliane was most irrefutably not a woman at all… but a bear.

[The following lines are in-game options the player may select as a response to the scenario detailed above.]

Is this the work of a foul sorcerer?

This is unbearable!

Has she always been a bear?

That explains all that missing honey…